R. Eric Thomas (Congratulations, the Best is Over!) on Ann Patchett and The Best Pickleball Movie

Jason Blitman: 0:00

We were going to lunch today and we passed by like a sex shop and in the window It listed off the things that it sold, and it said novelties, but my brain is so in book world that it saw novelists, and I was

Brett Benner: 0:18

That's the opening of this episode.

Jason Blitman: 0:19

Oh my god, I know, it was like, novelists, fetish, and I was like, what, oh no, that says novelties.

Brett Benner: 0:27

We have a novel fetish. We have a novel fetish

Jason Blitman: 0:29

know we do have a novel fetish, that's true.

Brett Benner: 0:31

that is so

Jason Blitman: 0:34

Too silly. I, on today's episode, we have the fantastic R. Eric Thomas. I'm so excited.

Brett Benner: 0:43

So am I.

Jason Blitman: 0:44

When I was editing it, I couldn't stop laughing. Here's a little bit about our Eric Thomas. He is the best selling author of Here for It, or How to Save Your Soul in America, a Lambda Literary Award finalist, and the YA novel Kings of B'More, a Stonewall honor book. Both books were also featured as Read with Jenna book club picks. on the Today Show. He is also a television writer, Apple TV's Dickinson, FX's Better Things, a Lambda Literary award winning playwright, and the long running host of The Moth in Philadelphia. For four years, R. Eric Thomas was a senior staff writer at Elle Online, where he wrote the popular Eric Reads the News column. And he's such a good storyteller. You can see him perform them live on YouTube and they're, he's just so great. We even talk about some of them in the episode. Brett, do you have a book you want to shout out? Shout out a book.

Brett Benner: 1:37

I do want to give a shout out to this graphic novel that's released today. Washington's Gay General. The Legends and Loves of Baron Von Steuben it's fantastic. It's a true life story of a general and Washington's army who happened to be gay. It was a, an unknown person in history done in graphic novel form. It's really smart. And so we just wanted to give a shout out to that.

Jason Blitman: 2:05

I'm in the middle of reading it right now and it's really making me just think about gay history and gay culture in a way that I never really had before. We don't have a specific bookstore to shout out today. However, we do talk about a whole bunch of books. Not only with. Eric, but we also have a very special guest at the end of this episode. We talked to Hunter, aka Shelf by Shelf, about some of his favorite essay collections, and we also just talked about other books. But something important to know is that when you buy through bookshop. org, you can choose the independent bookstore that you want to support. So not only does gaze reading get a little cut, but so does your favorite indie bookstore. So when you go and purchase any of the books through the link at the bookshop. org page that you could find in the show notes, you can support whatever indie bookstore you choose. And we would encourage you to pick maybe one of the ones that we have highlighted in our previous episodes. And so that said, without further ado, I'm Jason

Brett Benner: 3:09

I'm Brett.

Jason Blitman: 3:10

and enjoy this episode of

Brett Benner: 3:12

Yaaaaaays,

Jason Blitman: 3:14

Gay's Reading!

R. Eric Thomas: 3:30

Hi, how are

Brett Benner: 3:31

Hello, Eric.

R. Eric Thomas: 3:33

So glad to do this. I'm so excited. Thank you so much for having me.

Jason Blitman: 3:37

this is so awkward. We're double booked today. We're actually waiting for Ann Patchett to join us.

R. Eric Thomas: 3:43

get out of setup. Oh my God, you're ridiculous.

Jason Blitman: 3:49

No, but I will tell you reading your book and then consuming more of your content. I was inspired a couple days ago to finally at long last pick up the Dutch house and I had to finish it. Before this interview, and sure enough, I finished last night and I loved

R. Eric Thomas: 4:08

isn't it incredible? Oh my god, that scene where they go back to the house after all those years and the stepmother is like screaming at the door and she's got dementia. Oh my god, I was like, Anne, you're spitting fire! This is wild! Oh my god, I love Anne so much. I love her so much.

Brett Benner: 4:27

Wait, have you ever met her?

R. Eric Thomas: 4:28

No, I was supposed to meet her I'm gonna take one of these out, I can't hear. I was supposed to meet her when the book came out, when my first book came out, here for it we were gonna do an event at Parnassus, and then, it was supposed to be April 2020, so obviously it never happened. So I'm hoping that I can meet her when I go down, I'll be at Parnassus, next month, knock on

Brett Benner: 4:46

Oh, wow.

R. Eric Thomas: 4:46

no global pandemics,

Jason Blitman: 4:48

Sure. Sure.

R. Eric Thomas: 4:49

I think I want to wave at her from across the room and then never ever speak to her. Because what could I say? What could I possibly say to impassioned? I like that you're friends with Tom Hanks assistant. These

Jason Blitman: 4:58

your luck.

R. Eric Thomas: 4:58

like, the most benign, ridiculous things would come out of my mouth.

Brett Benner: 5:03

We'll get into this with your book, Your last section reminded me a lot of Patchett and that you so much of it as I'm laughing, I'm laughing. And then you brought this thing home in the end, which was so resonant, which is what she, like in her last book it was so that her essays and that's what I thought of.

Jason Blitman: 5:22

I was joking about being double booked with Ann Patchett, but I guess I wasn't. She's just not here

R. Eric Thomas: 5:27

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 5:27

to

Brett Benner: 5:27

That's exactly right.

R. Eric Thomas: 5:30

We'll be like,

Brett Benner: 5:31

Yes. When we post this, it's going to be about, it's gonna be like Eric and Anne,

R. Eric Thomas: 5:34

yeah, truly, she'll be like, I don't remember doing that, but sure, okay.

Jason Blitman: 5:39

Your besties now. Exactly. It's fine. I just wanted you to know you inspired me to finally pick up Dutch House and I

R. Eric Thomas: 5:44

I'm so excited. I'm so glad.

Jason Blitman: 5:46

I also loved your book, but thank you for also inspiring.

R. Eric Thomas: 5:49

please. If my real goal in publishing in general is to get people to read The Dutch House, if every book, for every one book I sell, I want to sell two Dutch houses. That's my goal.

Jason Blitman: 6:00

Eric, how are you this morning?

R. Eric Thomas: 6:02

I'm wonderful. I'm really good. I'm just excited to be talking to Gaze, just wanna start my day. Always talking to Gaze,

Jason Blitman: 6:08

brilliant. Neither Brett nor I are gay. So

Brett Benner: 6:11

Exactly. So that's the awkward thing,

R. Eric Thomas: 6:12

I just, I meant the podcast after this when I'm when I'm talking to Gaze. yeah. It's me and Anne Patchett and,

Brett Benner: 6:17

Yes. Our husbands are gay, but

R. Eric Thomas: 6:19

yeah.

Jason Blitman: 6:20

I just watched your storytelling event about the gay softball

R. Eric Thomas: 6:26

Oh God, yeah.

Jason Blitman: 6:28

When I was a kid, I was the understudy right fielder.

R. Eric Thomas: 6:32

Oh my God. We really we had the same role. Yeah. I like, I tell people all the time, I'm like, look, this made sense to me, I was going to join a sports team to be more masculine, and they're like yeah, got it, follow, and I was like, so I joined the Philadelphia City of Publicly Love gay softball league, and they're like, okay, that's where you went wrong, and I was like no, because these people were, they were so butch, and they were so focused on winning, and I was like, I'm just trying to wear some short shorts, and look cute, and nobody was here for that, and this is before, you know, now there's all these kickball leagues, and pickleball, and billiards, and those people, they're just there to show off their butts. Oh, I, no offense. That's the

Jason Blitman: 7:09

Brett is a pickleball player.

Brett Benner: 7:11

Yeah. I am a pickup up there. You know what though? Part of it is due to my age. After you reach 50, everybody is a pickleball. That's it. That's it. Please. Yes.

R. Eric Thomas: 7:20

very fascinated. I've never played pickleball. My, my, one of my best friends plays pickleball like every day. He is. 32 and like he's I've made so many friends and I was like, who are these friends? He's oh, they're friends of my parents and this and that but like he loves It's transformed his life. He's like, I feel like I've become a better person. I'm a better employee I'm a better man. I was like, this is wild. What like what happens on this court?

Brett Benner: 7:43

Yeah. Not all that, but I

Jason Blitman: 7:44

Did he tell you?

R. Eric Thomas: 7:46

No! I was like, I went,

Jason Blitman: 7:47

What happens on the pickleball court stays on the pickleball

R. Eric Thomas: 7:50

write I was working on, I had pitched a a pickleball film and I was like, pitching it around, and I was like if this sells, then I have to figure out what I'm doing, so I have to go to

Jason Blitman: 8:01

laughing because you literally just told us you've never played it before and yet you're pitching a film about it.

R. Eric Thomas: 8:06

Hey, that's show business, baby!

Brett Benner: 8:09

No, it is really, I have to say, it's really fun. And like all of our friends do it now but, I get it. And there's some people, but I also read that it's going to be, they might put it into the Olympics. Which that's where we've graduated to. But when you describe it to people, I'm like you're holding a ping pong paddle and you're playing with a wiffle ball. And they're like, does it even bounce? And I'm like, yeah, it's weighted differently. But there are hardcore people too, that I've gotten on the court with. And they've been like, that's an indoor ball. And I'm like, really? They're all fucking wiffle balls. There's a different there's really a difference.

R. Eric Thomas: 8:38

indoor ball versus an outdoor ball.

Brett Benner: 8:41

and there's a, there's an article in the New York Times a few weeks ago about it's become a menace for neighbors near pickleball courts because the sound is that thwack is so consistent. But I got to say yeah, it's really fun. So

R. Eric Thomas: 8:55

gotta, I really wanna get into it, but, that, as with every sport, I'm always like, in concept, I would love to do this, and then they're like, hey, do this, and I'm like, oof, oof, babe physical activity, I don't think

Jason Blitman: 9:05

right. Too much sweating.

R. Eric Thomas: 9:06

No.

Brett Benner: 9:07

yeah, I understand.

Jason Blitman: 9:08

Pulling muscles. I literally pulled my neck out journaling the other day, so I can't play pickleball.

R. Eric Thomas: 9:16

I know. I feel that I, yeah, I took a nap and I've had a nap. I'm 42, I'm at a, I don't really nap that much, but I'm at an age it feels like where, you wake up from a nap, you're like, did I break something while sleeping? And I literally, I had this I pulled this neck muscle sleeping and it was. I was like messed up for three weeks and I was like, do I have to go to physical therapy because I napped incorrectly? No, put me on an ice floe. Send me away. I don't want to be, I don't want to be

Brett Benner: 9:42

You just have to think up your lie. Like what, you were playing pickleball and you

R. Eric Thomas: 9:46

Yeah. I was trapped the what is it? The St. Anthony cross, the St. Andrew's cross, whatever it was. I was in the basement of some bar and

Brett Benner: 9:53

That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

Jason Blitman: 9:55

I was prepping for my pickleball film and I,

Brett Benner: 9:58

I didn't stretch enough. I

Jason Blitman: 10:00

it's like this secret, you have to secret it out until you're saying it out loud in the world.

R. Eric Thomas: 10:05

I really think that's the way, I don't know, I'm not very, I'm not as successful as a screenwriter yet. So I'm like, yeah, I guess I just, you just have to tell people, it's all about, it's all about buzz. I'm like, Hey, I got a pickleball film. Hey, wouldn't it be cool? It's it's it's Bad News Bears meets Sister Act 2, but on the pickleball court. People are like, ah, that's crazy. I'm like, wait.

Jason Blitman: 10:24

my God, the headline of this, of the title of this podcast episode can be R. Eric Thomas tells us all about his exciting. Upcoming pickleball film. It's we're just starting the buzz here first

R. Eric Thomas: 10:35

Oh my God.

Brett Benner: 10:36

Oh my God.

Jason Blitman: 10:37

the press. Oh, so fun.

R. Eric Thomas: 10:40

God. And then of course I get accused of scabbing by the W G A because

Jason Blitman: 10:45

No. We recorded this a long time

R. Eric Thomas: 10:47

right,

Brett Benner: 10:47

that's exactly right. But Paul Rudd has announced already that he's starring. Yes, that's

R. Eric Thomas: 10:53

He's playing a 20 year old. Oh.

Brett Benner: 10:54

That's exactly

Jason Blitman: 10:55

the same birthday. He's my birthday doppelganger.

R. Eric Thomas: 10:58

Oh, that's cute.

Jason Blitman: 10:59

Fun fact. Who cares?

R. Eric Thomas: 11:00

No, that's very fun.

Jason Blitman: 11:02

Okay. We could talk, we could kibitz all day, but should we talk about your book?

R. Eric Thomas: 11:05

Ah, who cares?

Jason Blitman: 11:07

It's funny because a part of me was like, I don't even want to talk too much about it because I want people to just read it because it's just so fun and then tragic, but still fun and Because I was like, I couldn't believe it. I was literally guffawing chortling every page.

R. Eric Thomas: 11:23

Oh, yay. Oh, good.

Jason Blitman: 11:24

I was like, I can't wait to talk to this guy. He's hilarious slash I don't want him on our podcast. He's hilarious.

R. Eric Thomas: 11:29

Oh no. Here's, I always tell people say all the time to my husband, they're like, oh, you must laugh all the time at home, and I'm like, yeah, no, I'm deeply unfun. It's I don't think I'm his brand of humor. And which is hilarious. We've been married for eight years and I'm like no, but I I, what I love about writing Especially like writing books is that I think you don't really expect, unless it's like a book by comedian, you don't really expect, Oh, I'm going to I'm going to laugh, but I'm like I came of age, really doing live storytelling and writing on the internet. And so you get that immediate feedback. And then like, when people laugh, it's catnip. It's lifeblood for me. And so I'm like, yeah, we can just put jokes on every page. And my editor is always you don't have to, you don't have to put so many jokes, like joke density is a, it's an art and I'm like yeah, I get it. But what if every single thing I say is hilarious? And she's okay.

Jason Blitman: 12:19

Oh my God. But what if? Yes. I felt that way. You could let your editor know that it was a good, it was a laugh, a moment to catch the breath and then a laugh again.

R. Eric Thomas: 12:28

Oh, that's all to her credit. She literally comes in there, she's Okay, we're gonna do one, two, cut three, cut four. I'm like, Oh no, but that's so funny. Cause I just go on tangents. I'm just like, cause I, I treat writing books like I'm hanging out at brunch. And I, maybe that's not, I don't know, maybe that's not how Dickens does it. But I was like girl, let me tell you this crazy thing that happened to me.

Jason Blitman: 12:50

Three ghosts showed up at my room one night.

R. Eric Thomas: 12:52

Girl, I took this Ambien and next thing I knew, I was at a dinner at Bob Cratchit's house and that place is a dump. So first of all, he's got this kid who, they call him tiny Tim. He looks normal size to me, but whatever. And everyone's sad all the time, disgusting. Ugh, all this to get a day

Jason Blitman: 13:12

I think, I think that's how, I think that's how it went.

Brett Benner: 13:15

Oh my God. Can you please update that?

Jason Blitman: 13:18

Oh my God. Dickens at brunch. That's

Brett Benner: 13:20

Dickens at

R. Eric Thomas: 13:21

Brunch? You know what? That's a really fun idea. You know what? I'm gonna do it.

Jason Blitman: 13:28

This is audio recorded, so we get 10%.

Brett Benner: 13:31

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Developed an association with.

R. Eric Thomas: 13:36

perfect. Okay. I'll send you 10% and then when the deadline article comes out about the pickleball and Dickens at Brunch it'll also include a mention of you. perfect. Perfect.

Brett Benner: 13:45

We didn't even talk about the book, but God we got some brilliant ideas for a Hollywood.

R. Eric Thomas: 13:49

this is a general, like

Brett Benner: 13:51

it was just a develop, it became a development accession. Exactly.

Jason Blitman: 13:55

my god.

Brett Benner: 13:56

Exactly.

Jason Blitman: 13:57

Okay, wait, but why essays? I want to, we'll intersperse with about the book because I do want to know a couple things. Why essays? It's not like a straightforward memoir. It's like a mix of, where did that come from?

R. Eric Thomas: 14:09

Some of it is because I started off years ago, 10 years ago, I started hosting the moth here in Philadelphia. And then before that, I was working for a different organization that that does storytelling. And so I got very used to. the five minute, the 12 minute story. And so like building these, building an arc and finding, asking the question what did I want? Did I get it? What happened along the way? Became very easy for me. And I think when I sat down, especially to write this one it was a little harder for me to figure out, okay, what is what the one story that I want to get out? I think in retrospect, I possibly could have written just a a book, like a memoir about having a house and having a garden. But I think what, as I sat down to write garden stuff I was like, oh, I didn't pay enough attention to what I was doing to I was like, and so there's this plant, right? And it's got these four leaves, and then it grows, and then you, because when you read, like, when you read Barbara Kingsolver and she writes about her garden, you're like, oh, I can see it, and I'm learning stuff, and I was just like, I hated it, I hated gardening I well

Jason Blitman: 15:10

turn to your husband and you're like, All right, babe, we got to do it all over again because I got to write the book about it. So got to move.

R. Eric Thomas: 15:15

truly. So I think also the essay form allows me to build a sort of mosaic, a collage of a feeling. And I really liked that because it allows me to just like drop in and drop out of my life. This is more linear than my first book here for it. They're both like chronological, but this one, you really you, each essay picks up where the last one left off. But yeah, I wanted the freedom to be able to be like, okay, then some boring stuff happened. We don't need to talk about it anyway, moving on,

Brett Benner: 15:41

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 15:42

total sense.

Brett Benner: 15:42

You, I was looking at this and a lot of the things you address in this book are there's articles over the years that have talked about the major stressors in relationships. So many of them you tackle in this, which is to say moving is one of them, jobs, finances death in the family. In all of this, it seems your relationship sustained and, what do you think the key is for that? What do you think the key is in your relationship through all of this?

R. Eric Thomas: 16:09

That's such a great question. And there was a, I have to say, there was an iteration of this book where it was really much more about the existential existential crisis of our relationship. And I was like, ugh, I don't know that I really want to get into that. And, but you're right, when you boil it down throughout all these awful things, awful and hard and whatever, the life stressors, um,

Brett Benner: 16:30

there are challenges.

R. Eric Thomas: 16:31

We've hung out together, and I think that we have an inherent curiosity about each other, I had this tarot reading one time my first tarot reading, and because I grew up evangelical, and I was like, that's the devil, and they were like, it's not the devil, it's a Meryl Streep tarot deck you're gonna be okay. And they the woman who was doing the reading, this is a friend of mine, she was like, the cards say to stop blaming your husband for everything, and I was like, excuse me?

Jason Blitman: 16:52

Oh, he sent her a text before you got

R. Eric Thomas: 16:54

It's true, truly. But it was like, it is one of those things where no matter what happens, it ultimately is we don't blame each other. And so in that and in that sense, we are partners in the most sort of basic sense of the word. And the times when it gets hard is when the partnership isn't working when we're not working together. And so I think that our goal is always just to work together. But yeah, I don't know. I it's it is. I like the essay about, I don't like it, but I feel really moved by the essay about David's father's death because it reminds me so much about how, even in the midst of all this hard stuff with the house and like the way that we were separated in the garden. We really were a team in doing this awful task. And I guess that's what marriage is. It's just like being a like, a teammate on a marathon. I hope it's also having somebody to do shots with. But I but I think it's all those things.

Brett Benner: 17:54

It really resonated with me going through it that last section, especially like I remember. You write this line that is so simple, but so direct, which was there's a before and then there's an after. And, my, my father died. He was out here Visiting us because my son had just been born. So it was literally my son was six months old and he and my mother came out and he went out one morning on a bicycle and dropped dead and never came back. So we had to go and we had to go to the hospital. We had to identify his body. But I remember, and this is the moment and I literally read it and it just came back when you were talking about having to tell, having to tell your, Husband And I remember sitting downstairs on the phone with the hospital who shouldn't have told me that my father had been wheeled in and he was dead, but they did and I had a baby monitor going and I remember my called my husband and you have to come right home. Something's happened to my dad. He was coming back from work and my mom was upstairs and I could hear her washing my son and she was like, okay, it's, let's get your back. And I remember sitting there and I felt this like bloom of pain kind of resin to go up my back. And I thought I have to tell her right now that her husband's dead. And but all of that kind of came back so strongly. And I just thought to myself, but my husband was such a, rock star through all of that and was clear headed and. It just meant so much like reading that. I think it really is about a partnership and it's about, give and take and going through it. And many couples don't like they can't, and at far less, just a move can undo people. Do you know what

R. Eric Thomas: 19:25

yeah. yeah. It's, I don't know. I think you were sharing that. That it's one of these things where it's, you know everybody is going to go through it in some way, but like when it Shows up, it's oh my God, this is. This is it. This is how it's gonna go. And this is who I have to be. And I have to be the person that I am right now in this moment. Oh, I thought I was gonna have more time, or I thought I was gonna be able to read a how to book on this beforehand, which is the amazing thing about David is that he, as a pastor, he's walked people through these moments so many times, and I just felt like I was flailing, I felt like I was failing him all the time, I've shared that with him, and we've talked about it in counseling, and he's always no, you were great, and I was like, okay I hope so, because this is the moment, this is life yeah, I don't know, and it's I think, people always say marriage is hard, and it is, but I think it's also, I have this curiosity about like, how marriage remains fun, and I think fun changes over the course of your life and over the course of the relationship. But, it's also, to just know that you can depend on somebody that's a miracle. Who can you depend on in life?

Jason Blitman: 20:30

And you said you've been married for eight years?

R. Eric Thomas: 20:32

Yeah, eight years since

Jason Blitman: 20:33

yeah. I've been married six with my husband, almost 10.

Brett Benner: 20:37

We've been married eight years, but we've been together for 28 years. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 20:42

Isn't that

R. Eric Thomas: 20:42

gosh. That's amazing. I love that. I'm so envious. I'm

Brett Benner: 20:46

yeah.

R. Eric Thomas: 20:46

envi Like you met when you were like in kindergarten, right?

Brett Benner: 20:48

that's exactly right. And I have to just say this for both of you, for all of us, we have many friends who have been in long term relationships, straight and gay, but many more of the straight relationships have fallen by the wayside than the gay relationships, almost all of them. All of our friends who are gay couples have been in it for the long haul. And I just find that so interesting and fuck you to the right and everybody who are the naysayers because it is, and it's and I don't ever feel like, it's not like we've all had to prove something. It's not that at all. It's just that you I also think, don't you think there's a little bit of you find your person and you're like, I would be so lucky. I would be so lucky to have found this. And yes, there are times when you're like, oh my God, what am I doing? But generally speaking I mean that, like for you, that sequence with your fricking arm and I loved with your husband so much, just when he is you cannot put a shirt on I loved him in that moment.'cause and I would've been you I like, I cannot go tits out to Cedar-Sinai

R. Eric Thomas: 21:48

I can't be seen. I'm

Jason Blitman: 21:49

Where's the gown? Give me my ball gown.

R. Eric Thomas: 21:51

yeah. I can't go to an emergency room looking like I'm in an emergency. Can I, can we please

Brett Benner: 21:55

I love that so much.

Jason Blitman: 21:57

Brett, you talking about that makes me realize, as gay people, we We've had to have hard conversations in coming out of the closet. And so like the concept of having a hard conversation with another person is not foreign to us. And not all straight people have to have hard conversations. And so I think in relationships, you can perhaps more easily have challenging conversations because you've built the muscle a little.

R. Eric Thomas: 22:20

I think there's also some, you have to make very concrete choices at every step of the way. Whether your parents are accepting or not accepting, whatever you have to say I'm going to introduce them to this man, I'm I'm, we are going to, if we decide to have children, we like, one of the things that

Jason Blitman: 22:33

is very intentional

R. Eric Thomas: 22:35

intentional, I didn't include this in the book because I just couldn't figure out how, there's not a resolution for it but we went through this adoption class the book ends right before we start the class We were the only no, there was one other gay couple in the class, and it was all over Zoom, but it was so traumatic for us. It like brought up such weird stuff for us, and then the class wasn't very trauma informed, and there was some weird race stuff, and I was like, This is so hard just to get to the place where someone can begin to apply to have a baby, and not to discount anyone who goes through a different process anyone who has a child biologically. But the things that you have to think through and digest and work through and talk about. As like a queer couple or same sex couple, there's just so many more, so many different things, I don't know, I don't know what it's like to be in a straight relationship, but I do think that there are some things that you're like, oh, this just happens, and that's very rarely the case with gay couples, I

Jason Blitman: 23:27

Yeah, my husband and I were living in New York City. We had started the process of Not the adoption process, but we had similarly gone to the information sessions, and we've done the thing, and we even found an organization that we really liked, sent them a deposit, really started the journey, and when COVID hit, we moved to California, And that company isn't licensed in california, so we got our money back, and we were back at square one, and listen, I think, I don't want to say everything happens for a reason, I don't necessarily believe that exactly. However, I don't think it was the right time for us to have a kid. Anyway, so I think it was the universe saying, wait a minute. Now's not the time. That doesn't happen in relationships where people can have a baby biologically, accidentally but a move across the country completely put the kibosh on. having a baby then, which was very interesting. It's challenging. Anyway for our listeners, can you share a, other than a book of essays, a memoir and essays, can you share what you would say the logline of your wonderful new book, congratulations, the best is over is.

R. Eric Thomas: 24:32

Yeah we described my first book, Here for It, as coming of age at the intersection of blackness, queerness, and Christianity in America. And this book, as much as I'm a little bit loathe to use the term, it is, I think, a coming of middle age book. Even though I look extremely young, and

Brett Benner: 24:52

You

Jason Blitman: 24:52

listeners who cannot see Eric looks terrific.

Brett Benner: 24:55

Exactly.

R. Eric Thomas: 24:56

I'm going to a concert tonight even though it's a Wednesday, yes that's right,

Jason Blitman: 25:00

Does it start at seven

R. Eric Thomas: 25:01

Oh God it's Bare Naked Ladies. And so it's literally like, it's Dad's Night Out.

Brett Benner: 25:06

Oh my God.

R. Eric Thomas: 25:08

But yeah, so it's, it is a book about the pitfalls and comedic challenges of what happens after you get everything that you want after you get married and and live happily ever after. And so in the course of the book, I move back to my hometown under duress and have, all the challenges of making friends as an adult. And then midway through the book, the pandemic hits and that's hilarious. And Um,

Jason Blitman: 25:34

chapter.

R. Eric Thomas: 25:35

And it's the, truly and so then it's also about making, it's both making a home at, in your own home, but also making a home in a world that is changing for all of us.

Brett Benner: 25:45

You call the book, congratulations. The best is over. So I'm curious. Cause it, to me, selfishly it spoke to people of a certain age, but do you think the best is over?

R. Eric Thomas: 25:54

I don't, with a big asterisk I think that so much is over, both in in life in general, you're like, oh, I guess that's the last time I'm going to do that, and then for our society but I do think that the best is so relative, and it's so based on perspective and that there's so much beauty and sweetness and hope out there. And the book for me was really, even the writing process of the book was really reaching back out for hope. I started off the process really full of hope. It was called something different. life kept happening and I was like, and But I'm but my big question is, when these things, when, like, when disasters happen, or tragedies happen, or January 6th happens, you're like, okay, why am I sticking around, and I really do, I ask myself that question. And the answer for me is always that I think that there is more life yet to live. And I think that's true for all of us. So I think the best is over, but I think there's more best. I think there's not only one best. And that's I'm in a polyamorous relationship with bestness.

Jason Blitman: 26:58

Very gay of you. This conversation so far is a lot like the book. Lots of laughs, lots of introspection, lots of, heartfelt moments. We're doing a really good job paralleling the book.

R. Eric Thomas: 27:10

I appreciate that. I appreciate that we're on the same wavelength. I also like worry that I'm like, I come up like I'm a big old fake and people are like, Oh, the book was interesting, but in person, yeesh. So I'm glad that it's all.

Jason Blitman: 27:21

I read the book, and then, like I said, consumed some more of your content, and then was bummed I didn't do the audio of your book, because I was like, oh, that's probably like a full on show, your one man show.

R. Eric Thomas: 27:32

Oh gosh. I do, accents. It's a whole, it's a whole thing.

Jason Blitman: 27:37

You're a big fan of Ann Patchett and the Dutch

R. Eric Thomas: 27:39

her. Love her.

Jason Blitman: 27:40

To ask you a question that is posed in the Dutch House, Do you think it's possible to see the past as it actually was?

R. Eric Thomas: 27:49

Oof. No. No. Not at all. And I love that quote. I love that question. I write, I think I, maybe I cut part of this. It's so funny. It's hard to remember what's actually in the book. Even though I literally just did the audiobook recording and I'm like, I don't know what I said. But I think about, my parents as they were the age that I am now, and remembering who I was in that moment remembering who they were, and knowing that memory is always tainted by everything that has come in the intervening years and also just by the perspective that I had and so I just don't think, I don't think there is one version of the past, but I also think that once you leave the present moment you're never able to really see what it was. You can get more perspective. I've had plenty of people that I've reunited with 10 years, 15 years later. And I'm like, Oh yeah, we were great friends. And they're like, I hated you. Or they were like, or I was like, Oh, we, Oh, we never really got along. And they were like, I always wanted to be your friend. And you were always pushing me away or whatever the thing was. And so then the past changes again for me. And I think for me, one of the things about writing memoir and writing essays is that part of this work is a desire to keep excavating the past and keep asking questions and to get as much information as possible, but I don't think I'll ever really know but I just want to know more if that makes sense.

Jason Blitman: 29:04

Yeah. For sure.

R. Eric Thomas: 29:05

I don't know, do you think we can ever ever really see the past as it was?

Jason Blitman: 29:08

I think to your point, we were a different person in that moment, and the people around us, we don't have their shared experience. So we are all experiencing a moment in a different way, and so I think the past becomes a little piece of each of those experiences. Like a weird way to put it, but an interesting example that I experienced recently is I met up with a friend of mine who she and I knew each other. We did theater when we were kids in South Florida and we saw each other for the first time in 20 years. And we were chatting about something and she shared with me that it was my coming out to her when I was 12 that stayed with her. And now she is. Uh, Therapist for young people to talk them through the coming out process with their family, et cetera. But it was like, but I frankly didn't even remember that moment of time because it wasn't as impactful for me as it was for her, so the way we each have an experience is different, you know? So that I think is just, it's just very interesting. And I also imagine, we remember, I don't want to say what we want to remember.

R. Eric Thomas: 30:16

Mm hmm.

Jason Blitman: 30:16

But we do remember through our own specific lens.

R. Eric Thomas: 30:20

Yeah. It's, I think that's so true, and it's fascinating. My parents have said the experience of reading my books has been illuminating because because, they're seeing, I'm speaking authoritatively about the way I felt and what I experienced. And they're like, we did not know any of that was going on, or we remember different things. Even my manager, he read the book congratulations. And he was like, oh, it really helps to shed a light on what was going on with you. And I was like, what do you mean, what was going on with me? Was I acting weird? I don't think he meant it like that. He just he didn't know we were working on a pickleball movie. Coming soon, The best

Jason Blitman: 30:50

The best Pickleball movie,

R. Eric Thomas: 30:53

movie.

Jason Blitman: 30:54

Not right now because we're on strike.

Brett Benner: 30:56

the title. The best

R. Eric Thomas: 30:57

the best pickleball

Brett Benner: 30:59

That's the title.

R. Eric Thomas: 31:00

Yeah. So it's just, it's just interesting. I never get tired of rehashing stuff, of hearing the same stories from people. And I get excited about the future because it's like I, I'll get to ask questions about the present that I can't ask now, or I'm not in the presence of mind to ask or I'm, or whatever, and I'll get to know more.

Brett Benner: 31:20

You talk about in the book the idea of contentment and contentment in love. Are you content now? Or do you think contentment is a fluid thing

R. Eric Thomas: 31:28

that's a really great question. It is something that I talk about with my new therapist. I've had to change therapist from Brian,

Brett Benner: 31:34

Oh no!

R. Eric Thomas: 31:35

I know it's a real tragedy. Only because like I moved. And so Brian is not licensed in the state that I live in now.

Jason Blitman: 31:41

Shout out to Brian. We love Brian. Yay

R. Eric Thomas: 31:43

Brian. I was like, Brian, break the law. I don't care. We have to keep working together. But I like my new therapist as well.

Jason Blitman: 31:48

To be seen in next book.

R. Eric Thomas: 31:50

Truly. Yeah. Yeah, that was part of our initial intake. I was like, so how do you feel about appearing in a memoir?

Jason Blitman: 31:57

And don't ever Google me.

R. Eric Thomas: 32:01

I think I am content. Contentment is such as it's, it is one of the hardest things in my life because I have a extroverted personality. I love talking to people. I have a lot of energy. I want to always be doing something. I come from a long line of people who dealt with their anxiety by just being busy. And so that, rings the bell of happiness for me. And that's the thing I struggle with through this whole book especially the second half where it's okay, I'm not happy right now. Am I okay? But I think that at the core, the question like, am I content is, it's so hard because it's like, It is really just the internal temperature. It is not even externally Oh, I'm content, but the dishes need to get washed, or I'm content, but we gotta buy a new house, or whatever. But it's no, it's none of that. I am okay with the temperature inside. And I think so, I think that's true. I think that I am... As much as I continue to want to work on myself, want to change, have so many things about myself that I'm like, we gotta keep it going I do feel a sort of sense of flow. September of last year, I started taking swimming lessons cause I know how to swim, quote unquote, but I could not save myself in like a Titanic situation, and I was very worried that I'd

Brett Benner: 33:12

Just FYI. I don't think many of us could so that you're gone.

Jason Blitman: 33:15

At that point, you probably just need to float.

R. Eric Thomas: 33:18

That was an issue. I don't think I can float. I was like, I don't think I know what I'm doing. So I took swimming lessons and I do it every week for half an hour and it's very slow going, but there are times where I am Not thinking about the movement, and I am not working, per se, I am simply just one hand over the other hand, kicking behind me, and my body is moving, and that feels like contentment to me. It's not I'm not like, Woo! Swimming! And it's not Oh gosh, how do I keep from drowning? It is literally just my body knows what to do, I know what to do, and I don't think while I'm swimming, I'm not breaking down ideas or whatever. I really, I'm just like, hand over hand. It's my, it's a mindfulness practice, yeah. And, and, and that is something that I've really struggled with mindfulness and riding bikes, and and it's, it has been really helpful, so I think of contentment like that.

Brett Benner: 34:09

and probably the true test of success for you will be, have you booked a cruise yet?

R. Eric Thomas: 34:14

I really want to that's the thing, cruises were so out, for a while. And my parents love cruises. They go on cruises all the time. But then, like, all my gay friends are, like, showing up on cruises. Little three day cruises to the Bahamas. And I'm like, first of all, where's my invite? Second of all, oh, cruises are cute again. Okay, then let me go on a

Jason Blitman: 34:31

Right. Spotted on Instagram. Cruises are cool. I do have to thank you also, not only for pushing me to read The Dutch House, For explaining to me John Travolta's accent in Hairspray.

R. Eric Thomas: 34:43

I was like, girl, what is happening? Sometimes these people, these Hollywood people, get these sort of regionally specific East Coast accents, and they go to town. And

Jason Blitman: 34:53

I didn't know that's what he was going for. And then in your book, you unpack that a bit. And I was like, oh, that's what that was supposed to be.

R. Eric Thomas: 34:59

Yeah. Transcribed Yeah, and kudos to him.

Brett Benner: 35:02

Yeah, do you think when he prepared it was like the accent first or once he got the like suit on and the wig, then he was like, I'm here

R. Eric Thomas: 35:09

it's I do think he was leading, he was walking in the room accent first. I really think he was like... Just like working on it like Madea. Because I just it's not necessary in the text. Harvey Fierstein wasn't doing the accent on Broadway. it's, we get it. I had a play of mine done in Baltimore recently. It's set in Baltimore. And the, I didn't specify in the play that the actors had to have Baltimore accents, but one of the actresses was, like, from the area or knew the area. And so she came into the audition with this phenomenal Baltimore accent. And it had this ripple effect on the cast members who played her family. And so they all You could see them start to panic and then one of them was like, We need a vocal coach. So they hired a vocal coach. And I was like, Oh no, I didn't mean all of this. But I was like, this is beyond my control.

Jason Blitman: 35:54

never commissioning you again.

R. Eric Thomas: 35:56

truly

Jason Blitman: 35:56

Before we run out of time, we have to talk about. Your playlist of songs and videos that make you emotional. Because the first on my list is Fantasia Barrino singing. I'm

Brett Benner: 36:10

Ugh.

R. Eric Thomas: 36:10

So good. So good.

Jason Blitman: 36:12

Take your time.'tas, take your time.

R. Eric Thomas: 36:14

Take your time, Paige. Yes, take your time. If you ever have the chance to see Fantasia live, she is phenomenal. I think the best iteration of a Fantasia, Barino concert, it's one of those, like an outdoor pavilion in a city that's got a pretty large Black population, and it's just, it's hot, and you're sweating, and everybody's sweating, and she's sweating, and she doesn't have any shoes on, obviously and it goes on forever, the ones I've been to have been pavilions where there's it's on like a boardwalk or something, so there's like people walking by and every once in a while you look over and like tourists and they're just like, What's happening over there? Is that a church? Is that a hurricane? What's happening over

Jason Blitman: 36:47

And the answer is yes.

R. Eric Thomas: 36:48

Yeah, absolutely.

Jason Blitman: 36:49

It is Both Both

Brett Benner: 36:50

the all of the above. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 36:52

And go get your chair.

R. Eric Thomas: 36:54

Go get,

Jason Blitman: 36:55

bring, right? All right, Brett is a casting director. I am a former casting director. You get to be casting director. I know the answer to this already, who is starring in the adaptation of your book?

R. Eric Thomas: 37:09

Jesse L. Williams, the hottest man on earth. What, who do you think.

Jason Blitman: 37:12

You!

R. Eric Thomas: 37:13

Oh, me! I'm busy, I gotta be on the set of Pickleball, too!

Jason Blitman: 37:19

it was such a big success. There's a sequel!

R. Eric Thomas: 37:21

He's just,

Brett Benner: 37:22

pickling. Did you see take me out?

R. Eric Thomas: 37:24

I got sick, I had tickets, and then I got sick, I couldn't see it, so I gave them to a friend, and I was like, Enjoy. I really wanted to see it. Yeah. And that's the thing. I really, I generally don't like on stage nudity because I'm, like, I get uncomfortable because I'm just like, now I'm in a room with a naked person. Screen nudity, it's whatever, but on stage nudity, I'm just like, I'm very aware that this is a naked person. But I like Take Me Out a lot, and I really wanted to see it but I didn't. Oh, yet another thing that I've missed out. Oprah, favorite things. Jesse L. Williams, it takes me out. Just tragedy on tragedy.

Jason Blitman: 37:56

the best is in fact over.

R. Eric Thomas: 37:58

true.

Brett Benner: 38:00

Yes. But there's more to come.

Jason Blitman: 38:02

know. Speaking of Eric, can you tell us what you're working on next? Are you allowed to talk about anything?

R. Eric Thomas: 38:06

Yeah, I am working on why I have a couple of plays that are going to be running around the country. This year, Buffalo, New York, Indiana, and Philadelphia. So I'm working on those. They're mostly done, but I'm just gonna be like dropping in. But I have another book coming out. I think it's 2025. It's a rom com about two men it feels a little You've Got Mail y it's a romance between a guy in his like late thirties and a guy in his mid fifties who are on opposite sides of what to do about this resort in this small town in central Pennsylvania. So it's got a little bit of Terry McMillan vibes, a little bit of Schitt's Creek vibes. I'm very excited about it.

Jason Blitman: 38:41

Eric, this has been so

Brett Benner: 38:42

is

R. Eric Thomas: 38:43

you. This is, I love this. This is a great way to begin my day. Thank you so much. This is, your delights. This podcast is so fun and so great. So thank you.

Brett Benner: 38:51

Thank you. We appreciate it. The book is great.

Jason Blitman: 38:54

I know I like truly, and I'm not just saying this, I laughed on every single page. It was like annoying. My husband was doing work next to me. He's what are you laughing at? I was like, let me just read you this one thing.

R. Eric Thomas: 39:07

Oh my god. See, that makes me feel so good. I was like, oh, what if people don't think this is funny? So it's really it's so helpful to hear that people think it's funny.

Brett Benner: 39:15

It really is.

Jason Blitman: 39:16

Have a great

Brett Benner: 39:17

You're a delight.

R. Eric Thomas: 39:18

Thank you, too. You, too.

Brett Benner: 39:19

All

Jason Blitman: 39:19

Bye.

Brett Benner: 39:19

this was so much fun.

Jason Blitman: 39:22

And now we're so excited to welcome to the podcast, Hunter, aka Shelf by Shelf on Instagram. Welcome Hunter to

Brett Benner: 39:30

Welcome hunter. Woo.

Jason Blitman: 39:31

Yay. Yay. Hunter, how did Shelf by Shelf come to be?

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 39:34

I thought I was being very original by posting all of my book reviews on Instagram. And then it turns out I wasn't. I realized that bookstagram was a thing, I was like, Oh, I need like a cute little Instagram name. And I used to love that show Step by Step. And so in my head, Yes! Okay, and that's, so that's the theme that plays in my head whenever I say Shelf by Shelf to people. And so that was

Jason Blitman: 39:55

my God,

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 39:56

yeah, that's literally,

Jason Blitman: 39:57

you, that just fucked me up. never going to be able to look at your handle the same ever again.

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 40:02

gonna sing it every time.

Jason Blitman: 40:04

My favorite content of yours is the whispering at your desk.

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 40:08

I love to like spill the tea. I don't know what kind of tea but something with lots of honey because I'm from the south and I like lots of

Jason Blitman: 40:14

Huh.

Brett Benner: 40:15

Oh my God. The sweet teas.

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 40:17

I think I'm filled with good stories.

Jason Blitman: 40:20

When are you going to write your book of essays?

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 40:21

I have a book a memoir and stories called I Live at the Inn. And I'm infuriated, it's so funny, I have several agents have the full, some have read 50 pages or whatever, and they're interested, and I'm like, okay, that's great, but you guys have had it for a year now, where are we at? In the meantime, I've been writing a novel, but I also keep writing more of my life because I'm a narcissist, so.

Jason Blitman: 40:39

What, What draws you to memoirs? What draws you to essays and share what you love.

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 40:45

I read a memoir years ago that I can't remember what it was, but I just didn't like it. I don't know, there was, it just wasn't clicking for me. And anytime that something doesn't click for me, it's like short stories. I used to read short stories and I don't get it. And a couple years back I read Patricia Lockwood's Priest Daddy, and there was something about the language of that book that I found so beautiful, and her story I found so moving and hilarious. And after that I, I saw that Mary Carr had blurbed her book, and so I went to go by the Liars Club, and Mary Carr once talked about how memoir is about the subjective truth instead of the objective truth, how it's someone claiming that I don't know if what all is true or not, but I know this is my truth for me. And I think that's a really beautiful idea and something that we have begun to embrace more fully as we question the reality of everything around us. And so I love that idea about memoir, but I also think the idea of analyzing your life there's just such a great depth, there's such a well there, right? And that's a really daring thing to do, I think. And also there's people like Alexander Chee and C. J. Hauser who write beautiful essays, memoir, and essay type books that that I just think speak to a truth that, That we haven't really seen articulated as well until recently. I think that's great. And then also people like R. Eric Thomas, who is hilarious. And that I just get pure joy from. I was so deeply moved and impressed by his ability to, Bye. Bye. He's so funny, but so tender and like I said, can confront like more difficult truths about yourself in these pieces and it's he's like doing this really tight kind of balance here with the different tone, the tonality of the stories and that's just really impressive to me. Do you guys have a favorite?

Brett Benner: 42:24

do you have one, Jason?

Jason Blitman: 42:25

I think I had a hard time reading memoirs because when I first started reading, my experience with them was like celebrity writing their story. And I didn't really have an interest in that. And then I started reading like normal people's stories. And then I was like, Oh, wait, I think I really like memoirs. The first that came to mind was Crying in the Bathroom by Erica L. Sanchez. And I just talk about another book where I like laughed and I cried and I was so moved. And it is a memoir and essays, but it's also this collection of human nature. And then Intimacy Idiot by Isaac Oliver. He is gay and funny. And it's again, very moving, but hilarious. And, so I, I think I like it. Memoirs more than I ever thought I did.

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 43:12

Yeah.

Brett Benner: 43:12

I think too, when I hear essays in particular, there's something dry about that when I first get it into my head and I'm thinking, Oh, this is going to be analytical. It's going to be. And listen, R. Eric is a prime example of it's not. And at probably every time. One of those people you just mentioned, but I go all the way back to, I remember the first time reading David Sedaris and I was like, Oh, these are essays, but they were so funny. I would say I do enjoy the celebrity biography. All of these work so well on audio.

Jason Blitman: 43:45

Of course. You listen to these celebrities tell their own story on audio, and it's lovely.

Brett Benner: 43:49

Rob Lowe, Stories I Only Tell My Friends. You will be blown away by what a great writer he is. These stories are, have you read it?

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 43:59

No, but I've heard good things.

Brett Benner: 44:01

It's really fantastic. And listening to Viola Davis is,

Jason Blitman: 44:04

Viola Davis's was so good.

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 44:07

I will say, if you do ever, if anyone ever gets anything from Lindsay Lohan, I don't care if she's a bad, I don't care if she's good, bad, whatever, I would commit crimes, bad crimes, to,

Brett Benner: 44:17

Really?

Jason Blitman: 44:18

Oh, this is a good PSA to any of our listeners. If you ever encounter something from Lindsay Lohan, send it to Hunter. Shelf by shelf. Hunter, did you have any other essay collections you wanted to shout out?

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 44:32

Oh, gosh. This is my problem, is that I have too many. I'm, like, I'm thinking.

Jason Blitman: 44:37

Just shout them out. Yell them all out. We don't have to give details. Just what are ones that you want to make sure people have on their radar?

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 44:42

This was an essay collection by Joseph Leza, it's called I'm Never Fine and it's dealing partly with him losing his father, and it's from a smaller press, and it's one of those, it's I don't want it to slip under the radar, because I thought it was really beautiful and I love this idea, he writes about this idea of, why should he even have an audience, like, why should any of us have an audience to our stories we're, like, So many people like, what's special about us? Maybe nothing, but also that's part of the reason why you should tell these stories anyway. Which I thought was really beautiful. I as I already mentioned, I think The Crane Wife by C. J. Houser is a beautiful essay collection. How to Write an Autobiographical Novel by Alexander Chee I think is great. There are too many that oh! Hola Papi! By

Jason Blitman: 45:19

Oh yes. John Paul Brammer. It's a fantastic essay collection.

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 45:23

Yeah, I thought that was so funny, and I, and every time he shares his thirst trap on Twitter, I'm like, thank you, bless you. Here's my problem, too. I actually, I got no, I won't say canceled on Twitter, but I get, I accidentally caused a mild uproar because I made a joke on Twitter that said we need to be discussing how hot authors are. I mostly just meant I know a lot of gay authors who love to be thirsted after, and I was like, I will be your hype man. And then a lot of people who I would never thirst after was like, I don't want you thirsting after me. And I was like you're not my, you're not my type, so it's fine.

Jason Blitman: 45:55

The moment Greg came on the zoom for LEG, literally, the first words out of my mouth were, you're so handsome.

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 46:01

oh no, this is,

Brett Benner: 46:02

I know

Jason Blitman: 46:03

on every episode. He needs to be everybody's hype man.

Brett Benner: 46:06

just for the ego.

Jason Blitman: 46:07

I know.

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 46:08

When I was in high school, my chorus teacher, who I was really good friends with, she signed my yearbook and one of the things that she said was, I'm going to miss your compliments so much because you're always honest, but you always find something nice to say about everyone,

Jason Blitman: 46:22

I think it would be fun for our listeners to hear maybe what's one or two books that you've read so far this year that you're also want to have on people's radar. This we didn't ask you to prepare.

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 46:31

just generally,

Jason Blitman: 46:32

Yeah, just in general, like a book that if someone right now says, What did you read this year that you can't stop thinking about? You would say,

Hunter (ShelfbyShelf): 46:39

I would say Brother and Sister Into the Forest by Richard Mirabella. I just found it very beautiful and beautifully written. He structures the book, I think he's talked about this, he structures the book emotionally over chronologically, and I think that's like a very smart, thoughtful way to do it, and I love his sentences.

Jason Blitman: 46:56

Thanks Hunter, for joining us.

Brett Benner: 46:57

Yeah, that's right.

Jason Blitman: 46:58

And, make sure to get R. Eric Thomas' book. Congratulations. The best is yet to come, is what it should be called.

Brett Benner: 47:05

It really is. And you can follow Hunter, again, on Instagram, under at ShelfByShelf and you can also follow our Eric there as well as a variety of other places. Thanks everybody for tuning in. And we'll be back with you next week with another fun author interview.

Jason Blitman: 47:22

And if you like what you're hearing, like subscribe, give us a review. Rate us, buy some books. Follow us on social media. Tell your friends

Brett Benner: 47:31

Exactly.

Jason Blitman: 47:32

whatever you gotta do.

Brett Benner: 47:33

Yeah. I got to say the ratings are really helpful and it's also very encouraging for us to know that you want to give us five stars and you like us that much.

Jason Blitman: 47:41

I know. Thank you, everybody, and have a great rest of your day and enjoy reading. Have fun reading and, whatever else you do during the day. Okay, bye.

Brett Benner: 47:50

Bye. You're making me laugh today. All

Jason Blitman: 47:52

Good. I don't make you laugh every day.

Brett Benner: 47:55

No, you do. You do. You do.

Jason Blitman: 47:56

Aye, aye, aye.